Discussion:
[dash-dev] maven.eclipse.org for Eclipse Gemini?
Kissner, Juergen
2013-01-23 22:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to collect some information concerning the maven.eclipse.org repository. The subject has been brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be nice for users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them through a central repository.

The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a common repository as described in [3]. This is true for released versions. However, each sub projects has its own private Maven repository for milestones. The Maven artifacts of most projects still require some manual steps.

For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org looks like an attractive option. We have discussed the subject, but had still several question, as you can see in our meeting minutes[4].

I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at the dash mail
Jesse McConnell
2013-01-23 22:32:54 UTC
Permalink
IMO

deploy it to central through oss.sonatype.org

maven.eclipse.org has no clear mandate at this point, no path to having
artifacts sent to maven central, and when you go into maven central you
have to work out the orbit dependency issues yourself which is important.
(which also currently have no path to maven central either)


cheers,
jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
***@gmail.com


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Kissner, Juergen
Hi,****
** **
on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to collect some
information concerning the maven.eclipse.org repository. The subject has
been brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be nice for
users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them through a central
repository.****
** **
The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a common repository
as described in [3]. This is true for released versions. However, each sub
projects has its own private Maven repository for milestones. The Maven
artifacts of most projects still require some manual steps.****
** **
For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org looks like an
attractive option. We have discussed the subject, but had still several
question, as you can see in our meeting minutes[4]. ****
** **
I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at the dash
Jesse McConnell
2013-01-23 23:10:04 UTC
Permalink
I'll expand since I have a bit of time now.

- maven.eclipse.org is running on the free version of Nexus, not Nexus Pro
and as such has no staging repository support which is a critical feature
when it comes to deploying releases...we have been offered a free version
of Nexus Pro but that is not allowed to be used by the Foundation. Staged
releases are important because without them there is no checkpoint between
what is deployed for a release and what actually enters the release
repository. Even a simple network glitch on upload can doom a release and
without the ability to stage/drop a release it is playing with fire
deploying straight into a maven release repository.

- unless things have changed, the webmasters are not responsible for
maven.eclipse.org at all, that means Denis is not on the line to support it
as a critical component of eclipse architecture, which makes it _not_ a
critical component, which means to me you should not depend on it,
certainly not for deploying actual release artifacts.

- on the topic of orbit dependencies, there is currently no path to having
them in maven central which is _critical_ for eclipse projects to deploy
into maven central since we have to reference signed dependencies that
exist in orbit for anything that is to be downloaded from eclipse.org so
unless you want a very confusing build you are going to have to handle
those dependencies yourself. In jetty we publish our handful of orbit
artifacts under org.eclipse.jetty.orbit groupId in maven central and hate
every minute of it, but what do you do? At least our dependency list is
very small so it is only an annoyance.

- On a CBI call a while back Andrew Ross mentioned that the orbit
dependencies in maven central deal was something that they were going to be
hopefully addressing in the next year but there is no firm date on that and
much remains unclear about how that is all going to resolve itself. It is
a tough sell how to organize this, not to mention the idea of redeploying
the same class bits into central with just some adjusted metadata to make
it an osgi bundle. They look to be trying to make maven.eclipse.org into a
maven central lite that only has eclipse IP clear stuff in it, and that
might work for some people but most people I know will shun such an
attempt. Jetty itself would be unlikely use such an effort, and if we did
it would only be in addition to releasing to maven central which is top
priority for us.

- One of the reasons that maven is powerful _is_ maven central. A central
location with everything you want to build against, easily found and
consumed. It is a very bitter pill to accept to ask users of yours to add
in repository urls for release artifacts to their project, especially when
you are not certain it will be a durable repository. Unless you get Denis
and the webmasters to bring maven.eclipse.org under the 5 9's support it is
not a good thing to do to your users IMO. Builds are critical.

Anyway, on a Vert.x thread about them coming to eclipse Wayne said that
there were big plans for maven.eclipse.org and it could turn into a safe
place to put your artifacts....as of right now though I would shy away
until it has a clear mandate that is widely communicated (ie wayne's
comments on that vert.x thread were news to me :)

cheers,
jesse



--
jesse mcconnell
***@gmail.com


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Jesse McConnell
Post by Jesse McConnell
IMO
deploy it to central through oss.sonatype.org
maven.eclipse.org has no clear mandate at this point, no path to having
artifacts sent to maven central, and when you go into maven central you
have to work out the orbit dependency issues yourself which is important.
(which also currently have no path to maven central either)
cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
Hi,****
** **
on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to collect some
information concerning the maven.eclipse.org repository. The subject has
been brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be nice for
users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them through a central
repository.****
** **
The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a common
repository as described in [3]. This is true for released versions.
However, each sub projects has its own private Maven repository for
milestones. The Maven artifacts of most projects still require some manual
steps.****
** **
For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org looks like
an attractive option. We have discussed the subject, but had still several
question, as you can see in our meeting minutes[4]. ****
** **
I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at the dash
Jesse McConnell
2013-01-24 16:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Saw this today and figured I would toss it onto here since it seemed quite
topical:

http://www.sonatype.com/people/2009/02/why-putting-repositories-in-your-poms-is-a-bad-idea/

cheers,
jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
***@gmail.com


On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 5:10 PM, Jesse McConnell
Post by Jesse McConnell
I'll expand since I have a bit of time now.
- maven.eclipse.org is running on the free version of Nexus, not Nexus
Pro and as such has no staging repository support which is a critical
feature when it comes to deploying releases...we have been offered a free
version of Nexus Pro but that is not allowed to be used by the Foundation.
Staged releases are important because without them there is no checkpoint
between what is deployed for a release and what actually enters the release
repository. Even a simple network glitch on upload can doom a release and
without the ability to stage/drop a release it is playing with fire
deploying straight into a maven release repository.
- unless things have changed, the webmasters are not responsible for
maven.eclipse.org at all, that means Denis is not on the line to support
it as a critical component of eclipse architecture, which makes it _not_ a
critical component, which means to me you should not depend on it,
certainly not for deploying actual release artifacts.
- on the topic of orbit dependencies, there is currently no path to having
them in maven central which is _critical_ for eclipse projects to deploy
into maven central since we have to reference signed dependencies that
exist in orbit for anything that is to be downloaded from eclipse.org so
unless you want a very confusing build you are going to have to handle
those dependencies yourself. In jetty we publish our handful of orbit
artifacts under org.eclipse.jetty.orbit groupId in maven central and hate
every minute of it, but what do you do? At least our dependency list is
very small so it is only an annoyance.
- On a CBI call a while back Andrew Ross mentioned that the orbit
dependencies in maven central deal was something that they were going to be
hopefully addressing in the next year but there is no firm date on that and
much remains unclear about how that is all going to resolve itself. It is
a tough sell how to organize this, not to mention the idea of redeploying
the same class bits into central with just some adjusted metadata to make
it an osgi bundle. They look to be trying to make maven.eclipse.org into
a maven central lite that only has eclipse IP clear stuff in it, and that
might work for some people but most people I know will shun such an
attempt. Jetty itself would be unlikely use such an effort, and if we did
it would only be in addition to releasing to maven central which is top
priority for us.
- One of the reasons that maven is powerful _is_ maven central. A
central location with everything you want to build against, easily found
and consumed. It is a very bitter pill to accept to ask users of yours to
add in repository urls for release artifacts to their project, especially
when you are not certain it will be a durable repository. Unless you get
Denis and the webmasters to bring maven.eclipse.org under the 5 9's
support it is not a good thing to do to your users IMO. Builds are
critical.
Anyway, on a Vert.x thread about them coming to eclipse Wayne said that
there were big plans for maven.eclipse.org and it could turn into a safe
place to put your artifacts....as of right now though I would shy away
until it has a clear mandate that is widely communicated (ie wayne's
comments on that vert.x thread were news to me :)
cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Jesse McConnell <
Post by Jesse McConnell
IMO
deploy it to central through oss.sonatype.org
maven.eclipse.org has no clear mandate at this point, no path to having
artifacts sent to maven central, and when you go into maven central you
have to work out the orbit dependency issues yourself which is important.
(which also currently have no path to maven central either)
cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Kissner, Juergen <
Hi,****
** **
on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to collect some
information concerning the maven.eclipse.org repository. The subject
has been brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be nice
for users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them through a central
repository.****
** **
The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a common
repository as described in [3]. This is true for released versions.
However, each sub projects has its own private Maven repository for
milestones. The Maven artifacts of most projects still require some manual
steps.****
** **
For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org looks like
an attractive option. We have discussed the subject, but had still several
question, as you can see in our meeting minutes[4]. ****
** **
I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at the dash
Kissner, Juergen
2013-01-24 20:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jesse,

many thanks for your very detailed explanation!

It certainly sheds some light on the various aspects of the repository question. I am sure your answer will also help other Eclipse projects who come across the maven.eclipse.org repository.

Best Regards,
Juergen


From: dash-dev-***@eclipse.org [mailto:dash-dev-***@eclipse.org] On Behalf Of Jesse McConnell
Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2013 00:10
To: Tools for Committer Community
Subject: Re: [dash-dev] maven.eclipse.org for Eclipse Gemini?

I'll expand since I have a bit of time now.

- maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> is running on the free version of Nexus, not Nexus Pro and as such has no staging repository support which is a critical feature when it comes to deploying releases...we have been offered a free version of Nexus Pro but that is not allowed to be used by the Foundation. Staged releases are important because without them there is no checkpoint between what is deployed for a release and what actually enters the release repository. Even a simple network glitch on upload can doom a release and without the ability to stage/drop a release it is playing with fire deploying straight into a maven release repository.

- unless things have changed, the webmasters are not responsible for maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> at all, that means Denis is not on the line to support it as a critical component of eclipse architecture, which makes it _not_ a critical component, which means to me you should not depend on it, certainly not for deploying actual release artifacts.

- on the topic of orbit dependencies, there is currently no path to having them in maven central which is _critical_ for eclipse projects to deploy into maven central since we have to reference signed dependencies that exist in orbit for anything that is to be downloaded from eclipse.org<http://eclipse.org> so unless you want a very confusing build you are going to have to handle those dependencies yourself. In jetty we publish our handful of orbit artifacts under org.eclipse.jetty.orbit groupId in maven central and hate every minute of it, but what do you do? At least our dependency list is very small so it is only an annoyance.

- On a CBI call a while back Andrew Ross mentioned that the orbit dependencies in maven central deal was something that they were going to be hopefully addressing in the next year but there is no firm date on that and much remains unclear about how that is all going to resolve itself. It is a tough sell how to organize this, not to mention the idea of redeploying the same class bits into central with just some adjusted metadata to make it an osgi bundle. They look to be trying to make maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> into a maven central lite that only has eclipse IP clear stuff in it, and that might work for some people but most people I know will shun such an attempt. Jetty itself would be unlikely use such an effort, and if we did it would only be in addition to releasing to maven central which is top priority for us.

- One of the reasons that maven is powerful _is_ maven central. A central location with everything you want to build against, easily found and consumed. It is a very bitter pill to accept to ask users of yours to add in repository urls for release artifacts to their project, especially when you are not certain it will be a durable repository. Unless you get Denis and the webmasters to bring maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> under the 5 9's support it is not a good thing to do to your users IMO. Builds are critical.

Anyway, on a Vert.x thread about them coming to eclipse Wayne said that there were big plans for maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> and it could turn into a safe place to put your artifacts....as of right now though I would shy away until it has a clear mandate that is widely communicated (ie wayne's comments on that vert.x thread were news to me :)

cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Jesse McConnell <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
IMO

deploy it to central through oss.sonatype.org<http://oss.sonatype.org>

maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> has no clear mandate at this point, no path to having artifacts sent to maven central, and when you go into maven central you have to work out the orbit dependency issues yourself which is important. (which also currently have no path to maven central either)


cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Kissner, Juergen <***@sap.com<mailto:***@sap.com>> wrote:
Hi,

on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to collect some information concerning the maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> repository. The subject has been brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be nice for users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them through a central repository.

The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a common repository as described in [3]. This is true for released versions. However, each sub projects has its own private Maven repository for milestones. The Maven artifacts of most projects still require some manual steps.

For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org> looks like an attractive option. We have discussed the subject, but had still several question, as you can see in our meeting minutes[4].

I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at the dash mailing list. From the wiki, the repository and [6], I have the impression that the repository is still work in progress.

What is your recommendation?
Would it be possible to

1) replicate our Gemini repository [6] to maven.eclipse.org<http://maven.eclipse.org>

2) access the replicated repository using the repository url like <url>http://maven.eclipse.org/release</url>

3) browsed our artifacts with Nexus?

Clearly, it would be essential for our users to access a repository that will not vanish in the near future. Would there be any decision at some stage which somehow guarantees the survival of the repository for some time?

How should we proceed, if we think that the repository would be a good choice?

Thanks a lot,
Juergen


[1] http://eclipse.org/gemini/
[2] http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dash-dev/msg01332.html
[3] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Gemini/mvn
[4] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Gemini/Meetings/Minutes_Jan_15_2013
[5] http://wiki.eclipse.org/Maven
[6] http://download.eclipse.org/gemini/mvn/




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Denis Roy
2013-01-24 20:29:57 UTC
Permalink
On 01/23/2013 06:10 PM, Jesse McConnell wrote:
[snip]
Post by Kissner, Juergen
Unless you get Denis and the webmasters to bring maven.eclipse.org
<http://maven.eclipse.org> under the 5 9's support it is not a good
thing to do to your users IMO. Builds are critical.
For what it's worth, doing just that is on Thanh's list of things to do.

https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=394792

If memory serves me correctly, I believe he plans on tackling our
Maven/repo story in February.

Denis
Post by Kissner, Juergen
Anyway, on a Vert.x thread about them coming to eclipse Wayne said
that there were big plans for maven.eclipse.org
<http://maven.eclipse.org> and it could turn into a safe place to put
your artifacts....as of right now though I would shy away until it has
a clear mandate that is widely communicated (ie wayne's comments on
that vert.x thread were news to me :)
cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:32 PM, Jesse McConnell
IMO
deploy it to central through oss.sonatype.org
<http://oss.sonatype.org>
maven.eclipse.org <http://maven.eclipse.org> has no clear mandate
at this point, no path to having artifacts sent to maven central,
and when you go into maven central you have to work out the orbit
dependency issues yourself which is important. (which also
currently have no path to maven central either)
cheers,
jesse
--
jesse mcconnell
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Kissner, Juergen
Hi,
on behalf of the Eclipse Gemini project[1], I would like to
collect some information concerning the maven.eclipse.org
<http://maven.eclipse.org> repository. The subject has been
brought up in a post in our forum[2]. Obviously, it would be
nice for users of Eclipse Maven artifacts to access them
through a central repository.
The Gemini sub projects offer their Maven artifacts in a
common repository as described in [3]. This is true for
released versions. However, each sub projects has its own
private Maven repository for milestones. The Maven artifacts
of most projects still require some manual steps.
For the Gemini project and its users the maven.eclipse.org
<http://maven.eclipse.org> looks like an attractive option.
We have discussed the subject, but had still several question,
as you can see in our meeting minutes[4].
I have discovered the wiki page [5], and have been looking at
Thanh Ha
2013-01-28 14:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Denis Roy
[snip]
Post by Kissner, Juergen
Unless you get Denis and the webmasters to bring maven.eclipse.org
<http://maven.eclipse.org> under the 5 9's support it is not a good
thing to do to your users IMO. Builds are critical.
For what it's worth, doing just that is on Thanh's list of things to do.
That's correct. At the moment my priorities are with the CBI Platform
build but once the dust settles I'll be able to take a closer look at this.
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